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Tinting/darkening shellac?
http://www-.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10102&t=6809		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Michael McBroom [ Mon May 22, 2006 12:18 am ]
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OLFers,

I'm applying shellac to a guitar that has mahogany back/sides. The mahogany is nice, but quite pale in color, and I want to darken it some more. Quite a bit more, actually. Here's a pic:



I've given it at least four applications of garnet shellac already. I know the garnet stuff will darken it a bit more with more applications, but I was hoping for something darker than this.

I haven't used any kinds of dyes yet on my builds. Can I mix a dye with shellac? I would prefer a more reddish brown color. Assuming I can mix a dye with shellac, what type of dye would most likely achieve the sorts of darkening results I'm after?

Best,

MichaelMichael McBroom38859.3891435185
Author:  Michael Dale Payne [ Mon May 22, 2006 12:25 am ]
Post subject: 
Yes you can use most any wood dye with shellac I would use something like StewMac's Trandlusent Colortone Concentrated Liquid Stain it is a metal complex stain and is easy to control and comes in many hues
Author:  Michael McBroom [ Mon May 22, 2006 12:29 am ]
Post subject: 
Thanks, Michael, I'll check into the stewmac stuff. I just took a look over at LMI's site, and noticed that they sell alcohol-soluble aniline dyes. They have both brown and red, and I'm thinking maybe I could mix the two in a ratio with the garnet shellac to get the coloration I want. Sounds doable?

Best,

Michael
Author:  Michael Dale Payne [ Mon May 22, 2006 12:38 am ]
Post subject: 
that will work as well but Y take a look at the colortone first simular chimistry buy pre mixed to common colors
Author:  Arnt Rian [ Mon May 22, 2006 12:40 am ]
Post subject: 
Hi Michael, yes you can certainly use Stewmac's aniline liquid dyes with shellac, I have used it this way to do sunbursts. I can't advise you what colors you should get, but you will find that a little goes a long way, the stuff is highly concentrated.
Author:  Michael McBroom [ Mon May 22, 2006 1:04 am ]
Post subject: 
Thanks Arnt. Wish I knew what their red mahogany looked like. Can anyone comment on its color?

Best,

Michael
Author:  Serge Poirier [ Mon May 22, 2006 1:15 am ]
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Beautiful mahogany Michael, good luck with the dyes, i can't wait to see what you'll come up with!

Serge
Author:  Dave White [ Mon May 22, 2006 1:22 am ]
Post subject: 
Michael,

I think that that mahogany looks fabulous as it is. Also I find (at least with the Cuban that I use that looks similar) that it darkens on exposure to light - you see quite a difference after a month or so.

Author:  Mattia Valente [ Mon May 22, 2006 1:34 am ]
Post subject: 
[QUOTE=Dave White] Michael,

I think that that mahogany looks fabulous as it is. Also I find (at least with the Cuban that I use that looks similar) that it darkens on exposure to light - you see quite a difference after a month or so.

[/QUOTE]

Indeed. The finished mahogany I've got has darkened over time, and the rough boards (not even exposed to huge amounts of light, per se) are much, much darker than freshly planed. Not a big fan of tinted mahogany, m'self.
Author:  Philip Perdue [ Mon May 22, 2006 4:10 am ]
Post subject: 
Michael,

I'm another one who thinks the guitar looks beautiful the way it is. Let the wood speak for itself. Either way, its a very nice looking guitar.

Philip
Author:  Steve Kinnaird [ Mon May 22, 2006 4:22 am ]
Post subject: 
I'm with Dave and Philip on this.
They beat me to the punch, but let me also say that I think your guitar looks grand as is. Of course, that's a steel string builder talking....(But also a lover of Mahogany.)

SK
Author:  Michael McBroom [ Mon May 22, 2006 5:00 am ]
Post subject: 
Thanks for all the feeback, guys. I have decided to place the final decision in the hands of my client, expressing all the pros and cons I could think of. I also mentioned the forum and the majority concensus of the builders here. Your views may indeed sway his decision toward the natural look, warmed with the garnet shellac. Personally, I was leaning the same way, but sometimes a customer is more interested in the stereotype over the individual.

Best,

Michael


Author:  Billy T [ Mon May 22, 2006 5:50 pm ]
Post subject: 
Leave it! Leave it! Leave it!

It will darken over time!
Nice work as is either way!
Author:  Michael McBroom [ Tue May 23, 2006 12:16 am ]
Post subject: 
Welp, my client was indeed swayed by the comments here. I'm glad. I wasn't really looking forward to adding dye to the shellac anyway.

Best,

Michael
Author:  Dave White [ Tue May 23, 2006 1:20 am ]
Post subject: 
Michael,

Result
Author:  Dennis Leahy [ Thu May 25, 2006 5:09 am ]
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Hi Michael,

Back when I worked as a cabinet and furnituremaker, I was always amazed when some client (or the architect they hired) insisted on obscuring the natural color and beauty of wood with stain. Other than quartersawn Oak, where the stain darkens the background, "popping" the medullary rays (flake), I like my wood natural. The most stain abused woods to me have been Cherry and Mahogany, which we so often had to stain to a deep brick-red-brown color that I used to call "shoe polish."

That's a beautiful instrument, and your client has shown good taste by allowing it to naturally age.

Dennis
p.s. Raise your prices!
Author:  Michael McBroom [ Thu May 25, 2006 6:17 am ]
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Hehe, Dennis, all in good time. First comes the reputation, then comes the higher price. I've got to build the former before I can command the latter.

Best,

Michael
Michael McBroom38862.6380208333
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